A Broken Initiative-S4 Discussion

[FaithLehane]

Discuss S4 Here

Truth,Lies & Dreams

[FaithLehane]

Inching Closer & Closer to the 1st appearance of The Initiative
How do we feel about Pr. Maggie Walsh,Riley Finn,Graham Miller & Forest Gates?
and 314 AKA Adam.
What were some of your first reactions to the "Nato" Guys in 'Fear Itself'?

[FaithLehane]

Can I be the first to say that everything that came out of Forest's mouth made me think he had a crush on Riley.
Everything from telling Riley that Slayers were bedtime stories to the come be with me moment when he was "Reborn" in 'Primeval'.
I was expecting him to come out but it never happened he was soooo passive agressive.
Miller never acted that way.
So thats why I've always taken Forests comments as Love/Obsession.

[beth]

Totally agree.  Always thought Forrest was in denial about being gay, about his love/desire for Riley, and about his jealousy of Buffy.  And his sublimation of those feelings resulted in hostility toward Buffy and misogyny in general.

[FaithLehane]

For the last 11yrs I thought I was alone and crazy in thinking that
Thank you beth
It was really obvious that something other than a Soldiers bond were the cause of the passive agressiveness.
The rant to Faith in Buffy's body, Forest basically admitted he was in love with Riley.

[beth]

Prof. Walsh also has hidden desire for Riley, and it's super creepy.

[bdegrande]

Inching Closer & Closer to the 1st appearance of The Initiative
How do we feel about Pr. Maggie Walsh,Riley Finn,Graham Miller & Forest Gates?
and 314 AKA Adam.
What were some of your first reactions to the "Nato" Guys in 'Fear Itself'?

Let's see, I don't remember my first reaction. Can't stand Adam or Riley,  don't care one way or another about the Rileyettes, like Maggie.  Despite that, I like this season a lot. It has some of the most innovative episodes of the entire series - Hush, Restless, Superstar - and a bunch of other great ones (Something Blue is another favorite of mine, I like Spike a lot this entire season).  I am going to be the guest on The Initiative, which I don't think is nearly as good as the other episodes I mentioned, but has three or four of my favorite scenes of the entire series.

[beth]

@bdegrande

I feel exactly the same way about this season.  It's the season that brings us Riley (dull), Adam (kind of silly), and Where the Wild Things Are (the badness is self-evident). But, as you point out, there are just so many fantastic, high quality episodes (off the top of my head, I'd add Who Are You, New Moon Rising, and The Yoko Factor to your list -- and I have an odd affection for A New Man); we get the return of Spike, in great form, and we get Tara. All in all, the good far outweighs the bad for me.  I don't quite get why people don't like this season.

I also agree about The Initiative -- not an episode that I'd rank with the others, but still really good, with one of my all-time favorite scenes in it.  I actually tried to sign up to co-host this episode just to talk about that scene, but you got there first!  I'm very excited to hearing your and Bryan's thoughts about it.

[smartgirl63]

Today I was listening to Upside Down and Halfway to Happyland. Kim did an episode about the worst characters of the series called Top of the Flops. Adam made the list. One of her co-hosts, or perhaps Kim herself, suggested it would have been better if Maggie Walsh was there longer and was the Big Bad. Wasn't that the original plan? I thought I remembered reading somewhere that she was the original Big Bad, but she had scheduling conflicts or something.

[bdegrande]

@bdegrande

I feel exactly the same way about this season.  It's the season that brings us Riley (dull), Adam (kind of silly), and Where the Wild Things Are (the badness is self-evident). But, as you point out, there are just so many fantastic, high quality episodes (off the top of my head, I'd add Who Are You, New Moon Rising, and The Yoko Factor to your list -- and I have an odd affection for A New Man); we get the return of Spike, in great form, and we get Tara. All in all, the good far outweighs the bad for me.  I don't quite get why people don't like this season.

I also agree about The Initiative -- not an episode that I'd rank with the others, but still really good, with one of my all-time favorite scenes in it.  I actually tried to sign up to co-host this episode just to talk about that scene, but you got there first!  I'm very excited to hearing your and Bryan's thoughts about it.

I agree about A New Man, and I also liked This Year's Girl, The Harsh Light Of Day, and Doomed (loved Spike's speech - "Come on! Vampires! Grrr! Nasty! Let's annihilate them. For justice - and for - the safety of puppies - and Christmas, right? Let's fight that evil! - Let's kill something! Oh, come on!"

And yes, both Lindsay Crouse and Seth Green left earlier than planned. and the season suffered for it. The Veruca storyliine was supposed to go on for quite a while and was compressed into one episode.

[FaithLehane]

Prof. Walsh also has hidden desire for Riley, and it's super creepy.

Yeah, The whole Mother/Lover  thing was sooooo gross..Luckily other then her actions toward Riley we didn't have to see that progress.